ON THIS WEEK’S episode of Dinner SOS, test kitchen director and host Chris Morocco is joined by editorial operations manager Kate Kassin to help caller Janae conquer the matzo ball.
Janae loves a cooking project, and when she’s at the stove, even the simplest dishes often turn into something much more involved and delicious. Until she attempted to make matzo balls. For the last six Passovers, Janae’s matzo balls have fallen apart in her soup. And while the rest of her Passover menu might change every year, matzo ball soup is a critical, immovable tradition. The other thing fueling Janae's desire for matzo ball redemption: her mother-in-law. Janae is determined to turn this passover, her seventh as host, into a matzo ball victory!
Chris taps Kate Kassin to cover all the matzo ball basics, starting with whether they are better from a mix or from scratch. And what do you do about the broth? They leave it to Janae to decide what path to choose, between a mix and Molly Baz’s recipe for Matzo Ball Soup that includes No-Nonsense Matzo Balls.
Listen now to hear if Janae is on track to make this year’s Seder a matzo ball success story!
Chris Morocco: Hey, there, listeners, future callers, and cooking enthusiasts. Welcome to Dinner SOS: the show where we help you save dinner or whatever you're cooking. I'm Chris Morocco, Food Director of Bon Appétit and Epicurious. Our caller this week, Janae, loves a cooking project, and even a simple dish turns into something much more involved, and more delicious when she's at the helm.
Janae: Yesterday, I made turkey meatballs in this mushroom broth, and then I threw some cream in there. Yeah, that was pretty good.
CM: Okay. Well, listen, I could ask you easily, comfortably, handily, even, 20 more questions just about the turkey meatballs alone, but something tells me that's not why you called in.
J: I did call about balls, but they're not turkey meatballs. They are matzo balls.
CM: Oh, got you. Okay.
J: Okay. I have been trying and trying, trying to get matzo balls that don't fall apart in my soup for, I think, six Passovers now.
CM: Janae didn't grow up making matzo ball soup, or celebrating Passover for that matter. She converted to Judaism a few years ago, though she'd been embracing her husband's Jewish traditions for many years before that.
J: My grandmother has since passed. She was a very religious person and she used to say things like, "Oh, he's Jewish? Did you take him to Jewish church?" I'm like, "Granny, you can't call it that," but she was really, really just a person who loved, I guess, religion, and God, and people. When I told her that he was Jewish, she wanted me to wholeheartedly embrace Judaism in every aspect of the tradition.
CM: Janae has done just that. It's extra frustrating that at her Seder, the ritual meal that celebrates Passover, the one thing that's been going wrong is the matzo balls.
J: Matzo ball soup is the tradition. I can change everything about the menu, but I want to be able to perfect that thing that is traditionally always on the table at Passover.
CM: Well, and for anyone who might not be familiar with the tradition of Passover, and Seders specifically, can you just sort of talk to us about what that's all about?
J: The Passover Seder, Seder means order. There's an order of events. There's an order in which you eat things. There's an order in which you commemorate the traditions and part of the Seder, part of the meal, you break to eat the matzo. In a lot of Jewish families, when you break to eat, the matzo is also when you break to eat the matzo ball soup. It's the first thing that you eat at dinner, and it's usually after everybody's hungry and been bickering, and had at least a glass of wine.
Tensions are high, and like, "Where are we in the book? No one wants to read this." The teenager was like, "Oh, can I grab my phone?" Then here comes that aha moment of you eat the matzo, you eat the matzo ball soup. I feel like the matzo ball soup is supposed to bring everybody back down. It's not as exciting as the rest of the meal, but it's the first thing that you're supposed to eat.
I want it to be enjoyable. I want it to be exciting. Then my mother-in-law, she touts that she's got the best matzo balls in the family, and right now, she does.
CM: That's the other thing fueling Janae's desire for matzo ball redemption: her mother-in-law.
J: I've been married for two years, but I've been with my husband for 10. Early on in our relationship, things got difficult with his mom.
CM: Is she a podcast listener, by any chance?
J: I hope not. She likes to tell everyone that Passover was always her holiday, and so was Thanksgiving. Now, those are the two biggest holidays for my family, because both revolve around a meal. She has-
CM: With the claiming of the holidays-
J: I know. It's been bad.
CM: ... It's the true epidemic of our times.
J: I think that the people who should be claiming holidays are the people who are the cooks.
CM: Yeah, well, I certainly agree with that. Interesting. Okay, so she has laid claim to Passover, and what has that looked like?
J: Last year, it was at her house, but I braised the brisket. I also seared off some salmon. I made vegetables. I also made two types of potatoes, because she wanted a potato kugel and she wanted roasted potatoes. I brined the brisket, I braised the brisket, I brought the brisket. The only thing that she wanted to do was the matzo ball soup, because I can't for some reason get my matzo balls to stay together.
CM: Does she know that?
J: Yes. The first time she relinquished control, she's like, "Go ahead, we're going to have Passover at your house." The really disappointing part was nobody remembered what other parts of the meal I made. They only remember that my matzo balls fall apart.
CM: Honestly, they could have been Italians, I can tell you that. Wow. You just find the one thing, the one crack.
J: It just feels like someone who doesn't put in the type of care that I would into a matzo ball soup shouldn't be able to have the prize of matzo balls that stay together.
CM: Tell me more about your mother-in-law's matzo balls. Flavor-wise, they're lacking, but describe a little bit more what they look like, how big are they? What is that texture?
J: They're about tennis ball size, shape.
CM: That's a significant size to have floating in your bowl.
J: Right.
CM: Okay, just level setting here. If you were to put a spoon through that matzo ball, what would it feel like?
J: It's very bouncy and the texture is squishy.
CM: Squishy, but holds its shape generally.
J: Holds its shape generally, yes.
CM: What is the structure like inside?
J: I want to say if you condensed a honeycomb, it would look like that.
CM: Okay.
J: If that makes sense.
CM: An open even network of kind of almost like bubbles.
J: Yes, kind of looks like a sponge.
CM: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Spongy.
J: Yeah. Exactly.
CM: Got it. When your mother-in-law serves her under-seasoned matzo balls, are you the only one who burns with righteous indignation that you all could have been having something better? Do other people comment about the look, taste, texture, et cetera?
J: I think it's an unspoken rule that everyone just says, "Oh, it's good, it's good." When we clear the dishes, has everyone finished their soup? No.
CM: Yeah. Okay. Couple of sort of possible scenarios. One, is there any chance that she's sabotaging your matzo balls?
J: No, because I made them by myself.
CM: Okay, shoot. Okay. All right, so that's a dead end. What if, just sort of spit-balling here, what if your inability to get your matzo balls to stay together is giving her purpose in life?
J: That's beautiful, but hear me out, Chris, nobody wants to eat anything bland. Just playing devil's advocate for peoples' taste buds here.
CM: Yeah. Let's talk about what happens specifically with your matzo balls in the past. What recipe are you using? Yeah, where did you get it?
J: I've used several different recipes, and in the recipes I've used in the past, I've tried to separate the eggs, and whip the egg whites, so they're light and fluffy. I've used just egg yolks, and I don't know enough about culinary chemistry, so to speak, to know what ingredients were the culprit.
I thought maybe it was the brand of seltzer water I was using. I thought maybe it was the brand of matzo I was using, and now I'm starting to think it's just I wasn't using enough eggs in any of the times I've ever made matzo balls.
CM: That's certainly possible. The issue as you experienced it is that the matzo balls would fall apart during their initial simmer, is that correct? They would just sort of expand, open up, puff, but to the point where they just sort of fell apart?
J: Right.
CM: Got it. What are we looking at in terms of the upcoming Passover? When you close your eyes and think about what is the best case scenario coming out of this experience and calling in, what does it look like for you?
J: Best case scenario, dream world, all personalities aside, my mother-in-law would eat the soup, she would embrace me and she would say, "I'm so proud of you and your matzo balls this year, and I am just going to tell my grandchildren that your matzo balls on the first time that they actually stayed balls were heavenly."
CM: Aim high. I love it. I love it.
J: Heavenly.
CM: You've clearly given this zero thought.
J: None. First time thinking about it.
CM: Oh, this is fantastic. Kate Kassin wears a lot of hats here at Bon Appétit and Epicurious.
Kate Kassin: I do everything from liaise between all of the teams at BA, and make sure that the trains run on time, to manage a lot of our larger projects, like Best New Restaurants, Bake Club. I also just troll around the office, poke into the test kitchen. That's like at least an hour of my day.
CM: Multiple times a day, Kate just materializes in the test kitchen and kind of sidles up to somebody, one of the food editors, is like, "So, what are you cooking a day?"
KK: Sometimes it's to gossip, and sometimes it's because I'm hungry.
CM: Fair. When we first got this question, I put a call-out to the staff to see who had strong opinions about matzo balls, and you had a pretty hot take, which I found very compelling. Before we hear it, I want to tell you about Janae, our caller. Janae has been with her husband for 10 years, and she converted to Judaism... I brought Kate up to speed on Janae's SOS, and her otherwise spotless cooking record. Thoughts.
KK: My first thought is, wow to being good at making brisket. I think that is a feat in and of itself.
CM: Nice.
KK: My second thought is that my mom tells this story all the time, she also converted to Judaism, and she tells this story of making matzo ball soup for her mother-in-law at the time, Grandma Debbie, and used matzo meal and made them from scratch. They were big, dense, awful chunks of matzo meal, and egg, and water, and nobody ate them, and since then, has turned to mix. It might be a little taboo to say on air, but I too have always turned to matzo ball mix.
I think making your own broth is a wonderful thing. Then you control the narrative with what chicken you're using, what herbs you're using, what aromatics you're using. The matzo balls that come straight from the box are fluffy, and perfectly salty, and just easier to make.
CM: You're telling me matzo ball mix is the preferred way forward here?
KK: Yeah, I think when you're using matzo meal and making them from scratch, your chance of failing is higher than if you just go with the mix. Yes, saying that you use a mix may be frowned upon by some mothers-in-law, but it's foolproof, and I own it. They've quite literally studied how to make it, so in my mind, why not use their perfectly studied, perfectly engineered matzo ball, versus where you're trying to look at different ratios?
There are many ways to make this homemade, but I think really, the mix in homemade broth with maybe an added herb is a way to take the stress out, make your life easier, and still shine in other parts of your Seder. Honestly, the matzo balls are probably going to be better.
CM: Okay. Listen, I feel compelled to offer her two paths. You can advocate strongly for the mix, and frankly, I'll probably back you up. However, I do feel compelled to say that we do have some recipes for matzo balls on the site that are worth checking out for the theory and the ratios behind them as much as anything else.
She's tried so many times to get this right. Anyway, let's talk her through both options and see what she thinks. We're going to take a short break. When we get back, Kate and I get Janae back on the line. Welcome back, Janae. How has everything been?
J: Everything has been great. How have you been?
CM: I've been doing okay. I am joined here by my colleague, Kate Kassin. Hi, Kate.
KK: Hi, everyone.
CM: Kate is pretty much a matzo ball expert as far as I'm concerned, and certainly as compared to me. Janae, I wanted to bring Kate into this conversation because I put a call-out to our staff, asking who had strong feelings on matzo balls, and Kate responded right away with kind of a hot take. Kate, I would love if you could jump in and tell us more about your POV on matzo balls.
KK: I was not the only one with this POV, just to clarify. I believe that matzo ball should be made with mix. I grew up on matzo ball mix, and since I've inherited the task of making matzo balls both for Passover and just when we're in the mood, I believe that mix is the way to go for the perfect fluffy, salty, light, but still having heft to it, matzo ball.
CM: Does this sound like blasphemy? Are you outraged? Are you about to hang up and put in a call over to Food and Wine to see if they have better advice? What's happening in your brain right now?
J: Well, two things are happening in my brain, actually. I'm outraged, but not at you guys. I'm outraged, because I feel like you guys just outed my mother-in-law's secret. That's probably what she's doing.
KK: I spoke to her before this call.
J: I knew it.
CM: She's on line two. Yeah, listen, in parsing out the ingredients on a matzo ball mix, like Kate, what are we looking at? It's matzo meal?
KK: Matzo meal, it's always eggs.
CM: Right. Well, so even in the mix, the way that you prepare it is you're adding fresh eggs to it. It usually has a little bit of chemical leavener, some seasonings. Kate, is there one that you prefer? It sounded like there were two that you've used.
KK: Yeah, there's Manischewitz, which everyone knows. They actually rebranded their packaging as of late.
CM: It's classy.
KK: Yeah, and then there's Streit's, if I'm pronouncing that correctly, it's S-T-R-E-I-T apostrophe S. I slightly prefer that one, but they're both very similar if you're looking at the ingredients and what you're adding in.
CM: You've got some options here. We want to pitch you on, listen, for the ultimate and foolproof matzo balls, Kate fully endorses mix. Also, Emma LaPerouc, one of our cooking editors, she fully endorses mix, and these are not people who are afraid to make a recipe from scratch.
KK: Something I will note before we get into it is that I still make a chicken stock from scratch. I think-
CM: Yeah, talk about that.
KK: What's really nice is obviously, you're having people over, you don't want them to just think that you dumped a few cans of chicken broth and some mix, which still requires some effort. They're not coming frozen. You're adding in eggs and oil, and you're putting them into walnut sized balls, and boiling them.
There's still effort there, but I think what's kind of a nice balance is, okay, maybe you're not making the matzo balls from scratch, but you are making the chicken stock from scratch.
CM: That's where I think you can kind of crush this. The recipe that I wanted to shout out for both matzo balls and for the actual broth itself is by Molly Baz, a former colleague here. Her matzo balls are called No-Nonsense Matzo Balls on BonAppétit.com, and the recipe that has both the broth and matzo balls is just called Matzo Ball Soup. We'll link to both of these in our show notes.
One of the things that I think really sets her broth apart is she's using a base of roasted chicken wings to get really nice richness and color to the broth. In addition, she's simmering some chicken legs in that prepared broth for nice, shreddy, tender, rich meat, and further kind of reinforcement of that broth.
She's got some aromatic veg, she's got a parsnip in there, which, listen, that would automatically disqualify it for me on any other day, but I'm feeling generous, and if you want to put parsnip in there, I can't physically restrain you from doing that, but everything else really checks out, carrots, parsley, black pepper-
KK: Chris has always had a hatred for parsnips.
J: Can I ask why?
CM: The world's most overrated vegetable, to the extent that anybody should even pause to think about it.
KK: Parsnips add a lot to soup. They're also wonderful and other-
CM: A lot of mutant carrot badness.
J: What do they add? What positive things do they add? I have parsnips.
KK: I think if you were to taste a parsnip and a carrot side by side, there's an earthiness to a parsnip that I think you're just calling for one of them, that I think it adds a really nice dimension to the soup.
CM: I'd say the parsnip flavor is more sharply rooty, as opposed to more benign, buttery sweetness of a carrot. I don't have actually an issue with the flavor of parsnip as much as actually eating one. I just find them to have, usually they have a very woody core. I don't know, they just taste like a kind of slightly crappy carrot to me.
KK: The beauty here is you're not eating the parsnip.
CM: Right, yeah. It's kind of in there for vibes as much as anything. All that to say, sorry, I didn't mean to derail us, but it's a really, really wonderful broth, and I think the other move here, so number one, make your own broth and really being intentional about it is going to set your soup apart. Number two, simmering the matzo balls separately from the broth in simmering salted water.
J: Oh, in just water? Okay.
CM: Before they go into the broth. I think there's a number of different reasons why this makes sense. Number one, you've worked really hard to make a beautiful, maybe not crystal clear broth, but you don't need to muddy it with a dumpling that is simmering in that liquid, potentially making it cloudier.
Also, if there is any issue with them falling apart, you're not going to be in a situation where you have to kind of do a lot of straining to bring that broth back.
KK: By having your beautifully simmering broth on the stove top, you're signaling to everyone there that you made that chicken stock.
CM: Love that.
KK: You don't have to strain everything out. You can really show like, "Look at me. I made this from scratch."
CM: We found we had two matzo ball recipes of note, okay, at Bon Appétit. Both of them, the proportions were essentially identical. What was interesting to us is as compared to the recipe you were using, at least the one that you called out, was kind of like two eggs to a hundred some odd grams of matzo meal. Ours comparatively use a lot more egg. I think number one, you have a hydration issue in your matzo balls. I'm sure you're glowing.
J: I have two questions.
CM: Absolutely.
J: The first question was the walnut-sized ball. Does that play a role in how they function in the soup? Were my matzo balls too big?
KK: No. Actually, what I meant by that is that when you are using a matzo ball mix, they go from very, very small to very, very big, because they're absorbing the water that you're boiling them in.
CM: There is a little bit of that chemical leavening in there, so they are going to want to expand a little bit.
KK: The walnut size I mean is when you're rolling the mix that then has the oil and the egg in them, because they really like triple in size.
J: Yeah, exactly. Right.
KK: Yeah. That being said, I will say that people grew up with different sized matzo balls. I have some friends who had three smaller ones, and some friends who grew up with like, you get a ladle of soup and a big ball in the middle. Obviously, there's some flexibility there as well.
J: Okay. Then my second question was the hydration ratio. I didn't realize that eggs provided hydration to a dough, I guess?
CM: Yeah, yeah.
J: What would be the egg to flour ratio for proper hydration in this application?
CM: Totally, yeah. In the matzo ball recipe from Molly Baz, for the matzo dough, I've got six large eggs to 176 grams of matzo meal, as opposed to the recipe you've used, which is two eggs to 140 grams, obviously with a few other ingredients in the mix as well.
The eggs here are also going to be one of the things that creates stability in that dough as it cooks, as the proteins and the egg coagulate and set, which is also, they're also going to want to expand to a certain degree during that cooking process.
J: All right, sounds good.
KK: The ball is in your court.
CM: They certainly are. Hold on. We sent Janae off to decide how to proceed. Will she aim for from-scratch matzo balls, or back on a reliable store-bought mix? We'll find out after one more break. Hey, Janae, how are you doing?
J: I am doing great, Chris. How are you?
CM: Doing all right. I'm joined once again by Kate Kassin. Kate, how are you?
KK: It is sunny and 60 degrees today, so I'm delightful.
CM: All right. Well, listen, let's get into it. Janae, we know you made matzo balls of some sort, but the devil's in the details, as they say, right? What did you end up trying? Did you do from scratch, or did you try the mix?
J: I have to admit that I didn't have much interest in trying the mix.
CM: Wow.
J: I'm sorry.
CM: Wow, we couldn't sell it to you.
J: I'm sorry. It's just more fun to do things from scratch. It was more so the title of Molly Baz's recipe, you can't turn down a recipe called No-Nonsense Matzo Balls. That's what I went with.
CM: All right, so you were into it. Listen, you seemed like somebody who was willing to pull out the stomps. Walk me through it. What was the process like, and when did you start noticing any differences, if you noticed any from your previous attempts?
J: I think the biggest difference I noticed was the, I guess I'm going to call it a dough. It seems more yellow, and it looked different, it felt different. It was just evident that I guess it was more hydrated now that I added additional eggs. Yeah, it looked different from, as soon as it came together, I put it in the fridge. When I took it out of the fridge, it was really dense.
It was not nearly as dense any other time that I tried it. I was really nervous as I started to form the balls because of how compact it was. I was like, "Oh, my god, these are going to be sinkers. My mother-in-law is going to be like, 'You're never doing this again.'"
CM: Sinkers. Jewish term?
KK: No. If something floats or it sinks, that's not a Jewish term, that's like a-
CM: Okay, I thought maybe that was a matzo ball kind of thing.
KK: I think it's just an English term.
CM: All right, good. All right, just trying to catch up here. Hold on. When you say dense, talk to me more about this consistency.
J: The first couple of times I attempted to make matzo balls, it was really loose, and it would slide off. I wear gloves when I form things. It would slide off the glove, and as I'm forming them, they would be drips of plate in different places. It was not as nearly as loose. When I picked it up if, I didn't do this, but if I flipped my hand over, I'm sure it would've took a second to actually let gravity fall.
CM: Come off. Yeah.
J: I could tell from as soon as I took it out of the fridge, like, "Oh, that's going to stay together."
CM: It seems to me most likely because of the increased hydration of your matzo ball dough, your matzo was actually hydrated, as opposed to what was happening before, where it was kind of holding together-ish, but there was still essentially dry matzo with liquid, and it hadn't fully bound together.
J: Which is so bizarre of a concept for a home cook to think about, because before when I made it, the dough was visibly wet, but when I saw it this time around, it looked like cement had just been plopped into front of me. It was so thick. It didn't look wet, it looked gritty. It just looked so vastly different from what I was doing before. I was very surprised. I have a picture.
CM: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, great. Kate, how are these looking to you, just as balls of dough in a catering aluminum pan?
KK: I love the herbiness in them.
CM: Wow. That's the dough. When you say you were nervous, were you canceling plans? Were you making phone calls, or were you just kind of stoically pushing through, but despite your misgivings?
J: Well, I was already making dinner, so if the matzo balls didn't work out, we were just going to eat no matzo ball soup with dinner. I felt confident that they were going to hold together, because I got the recipe from Bon Appétit, so I was very confident, but I was nervous about them being like dense matzo balls rather than the light, fluffy ones that my mother-in-law would serve. I quickly realized, and I had to step away from the stove to not push my anxiety into the balls.
I stepped away from the stove for about 15 minutes. I came back and I was like, "Wow, they look great." There were little tiny water bubbles around each of them. I took, so this is at 15 minutes, I took a very, very gentle spoon, and I kind of poked at it to see if it would bounce, and they were very buoyant. They weren't to the point of rolling over yet. I knew, "Okay, let me let them do their thing."
I stepped away again, I came back about 30 minutes into the cook, and they were solidly together. I did that same tap with a spoon of one ball. It kind of like toddled to one side, teetered to the other side. Then I let it alone. Then about 45 minutes into the cook, I was confident that the balls were not going to fall apart at all.
KK: Did they speak to you?
CM: Yeah, what were they saying?
J: They were just whispering, "Good job, Janae."
KK: That was Chris and I.
CM: All right, so hit us with it. Did they ever fall apart?
J: Nope. Only fell apart when I took my spoon to eat them, and they were delicious. They were so fluffy, and I didn't realize before how much egg I was tasting when I was eating matzo balls. The whole thing just feels like you just inflated a cooked egg.
CM: Oh, interesting.
KK: I think that's also why whenever I eat matzo ball soup, they are pretty filling, because it's not just matzo meal and water.
J: Right, right.
CM: Oh, gosh. I'm looking at a photo of them expanded in the water, and we're looking at them and these are, you can just tell they have wildly expanded.
KK: They're beautifully dilly.
CM: Yeah, they're herbaceous. You get the definition of the dill inside the mixture. They look puffed, and yet they don't look like they're just going to fall apart on you either. These look great.
J: They were delicate, but they were solidly congealed, if that's the correct term. They were delicate but still a ball.
CM: Were you cooking these in broth or cooking them in salted water?
J: I started to think about if I were to cook them in just salted water, would that dilute them? I got really nervous and I took some of the broth that I had the soup stock make, and I put that into my salted water. That made them really salty also, I think.
I think I might reduce the amount of salt, but I still will do cooking the matzo balls themselves in just the salted water or just chicken broth, and then adding them to the entire soup with the carrots, the onions, the celery, and all of those things.
CM: Okay.
KK: Ah, so then when you served the soup, was it broth with the carrots, with the onions, with the celery still intact?
J: Yes.
KK: Wow.
CM: Can I dare ask, how was the flavor and overall experience of these matzo balls compared to what your mother-in-law has served?
J: There was vastly more salt. There was a nice salinity to them. You could taste the salt. I'm not sure if that was the tablespoon and a half of salt that I put in the actual mixture of the matzo balls, for just-
CM: What salt were you using? What brand?
J: I used Diamond Crystal.
CM: You do?
KK: Oh, thank God.
CM: We nearly had a code blue.
J: Guys, I'm a friend of the show. I know you guys endorse Diamond Crystal.
CM: We hope people are paying attention, but not everybody does their homework the way you do, Janae, okay?
J: You're right, you're right.
CM: Gold star. Thank you, honestly, because we were about to plotz over here, okay?
KK: That was a Jewish term.
CM: Okay, so what does this mean? Is this on deck for your Seder this year?
J: Absolutely. For sure. I will be making matzo ball soup with matzo balls this year.
CM: Kate, any final thoughts from you?
KK: As someone who, maybe it's that I've been too afraid to just take the plunge and try a new recipe and not just fall back on my mix, I'm going to a Seder this year and not hosting, but you've inspired me to try these No-Nonsense Matzo Balls, and really maybe leave the mix behind.
J: Yeah.
KK: If you can do it, maybe I can too.
J: Exactly.
CM: Will you report back and let us know what happens, Kate?
KK: Yes.
CM: It's a real question.
KK: It might be 2026.
CM: That's okay.
KK: Okay.
CM: All right.
KK: Yeah, I'll talk to you guys in a year and a month.
CM: All right, sounds good.
J: We'll hold you to it.
CM: If you have a dinner emergency on your hands, write to us at podcasts@bonappetit.com, or leave us a voice message at 212-286-SOS1, that's 212-286-7071. We'd love to feature your question on the show. If you enjoyed this episode, please give us a rating and review on your podcast app of choice, and hit that follow button so you never miss an episode.
You can find the recipes mentioned on today's episode linked in our show notes and on the Epicurious app, brought to you by Condé Nast. Just search Epicurious in the app store and download today. If you're not yet a subscriber, you can sign up today for a 30-day free trial in the app or at bonappetit.com. Thanks for listening to Dinner SOS. I'm your host, Chris Morocco. My co-host this week is Kate Kassin. Our Senior Producer is Michele O'Brien. Peyton Hayes is our Associate Producer. Cameron Foos is our Assistant Producer.
Research editing by Marissa Wolkenberg. Jake Lummus, and Vince Fairchild are our studio engineers. This episode was mixed by Amar Lal at Macrosound. Jordan Bell is our Executive Producer. Chris Bannon is Condé Nast's Head of Global Audio. Next week, Gillian is working from home, and it's harder to get out to the store than it used to be.
Gillian: I'd love to have things in the pantry, things in the freezer or the fridge that can be dinner when I close my laptop.